For Ethan Zhao (W ‘25), the value of cooking is in bringing people together and creating dishes that everyone can enjoy. After experiencing the high–pressure environment of the restaurant industry during his gap year, Ethan wondered how he could experiment with new culinary ideas and gather Penn students around a table—without the stress of running a full–time restaurant. Along with a group of talented chef friends, Ethan founded ‘every now & then,’ a pop–up dinner party concept aimed at delivering a top–tier yet accessible dining experience to college students. As the name suggests, Ethan and his team host their themed dinner parties every now and then, curating seven–course menus inspired by personal experiences and culinary backgrounds. After weeks of preparation, each event culminates in an intimate 12–person dinner, uniting complete strangers for a truly memorable and delicious dining experience.
Name: Ethan Zhao
Hometown: Allen, Texas
Major: Operations, Information, and Decisions
Minor: Computer Science
Activities: every now & then, Bell Senior Society, Sigma Eta Pi, Penn Spark
Can you tell me a little bit about your cooking origin story?
In Texas, I grew up eating from this Taiwanese beef noodle restaurant called Bull Daddy Noodle Bistro and always noticed they had these “We're Hiring” signs. While I didn’t have the time in high school, I took a gap year before coming to Penn and ended up working at the restaurant. I did mostly front–of–house and expo side, which includes interacting with customers and putting the final touches on plating dishes and serving drinks. A lot of it wasn't super kitchen–oriented, but I had a lot of fun. Next, I worked at Chick–fil–A, which was a very different experience. Everything is counted down to the second, and instead of a team of three people taking care of everything, there's 30 people in the back working together like a machine. Finally, after Chick–fil–A I worked at a farmer's market.
I actually didn’t cook a lot growing up at home. I love to eat and would usually eat whatever my parents served me. I would always ask questions and watch them cook, but I was mostly doing dishes and other side tasks for them. After my gap year, however, I was cooking quite a bit. For me, the value of cooking is really about bringing people together and building all kinds of menus. I don't cook as much for myself, but during junior year, I started cooking for a lot of dinner parties. I was finally living off campus, so I'd invite friends over and build menus consisting of recipes and ingredients that I’d worked with before.
What inspired you to create your dinner party concept every now & then? How did you form the team?
I wanted to create a pop–up in college because, during my gap year working at different restaurants, I saw how much pressure and stress the restaurant industry is under. As a restaurant owner, you're worried about so many different things; food becomes a small fraction of your concern. I wanted to be able to build different kinds of menus and really experiment with dishes without constantly worrying, “are we going to be profitable today? Can we stay open?” There are also a lot of different pop–ups happening at different universities now. I talked to some people at MIT and the University of Michigan who were very helpful in explaining how to approach starting a pop–up restaurant.
In my junior year, I reached out to some friends that I knew had worked at various restaurants and asked them if they’d be interested in this concept, and that’s how I assembled the team. Melody was a friend from freshman year, and I heard that she had done the Gourmand fellowship, worked at Fork, and had a lot of experience with cooking. She brought along her friend Sienna who is also a very talented cook and baker. She also did the Gourmand fellowship and worked at Vernick Food & Drink and Republique in L.A. I also reached out to my friends Grace and Luna from Spark, a tech and design club, who are now killing it on the design, decor, and marketing side of every now & then. The whole team is so talented, and this would be impossible without them.
How did you come up with the name every now & then?
We were deciding between two names: "fat baby" and "every now & then." We thought "fat baby" was a more contemporary, abstract name, but I think for obvious reasons, we ended up not going with it. Every now & then is essentially a pop–up—we're up every now and then. So it made a lot of sense for us to go with that name.
What sparks your inspiration for your meals and the menus you curate?
All of the courses and menus are drawn from our own backgrounds, experiences, and stories with food. We start with dishes we are familiar with, both in terms of taste and cooking techniques. From there, we think about how we can provide a new experience with the dishes and experiment with new ideas.
Can you describe the process of planning and executing a pop–up dinner party? Where do you cook the food? How do you spread the word?
Our usual pop–up event is a dinner that we plan over a three–week cycle. Typically, we’re coming off another event—our last event was a modern take on Asian cuisine—so we have one week to kind of relax and take a break. But during that week, we're meeting to debrief the previous event and think about how we can change. We also begin planning for the next dinner party. We have a rotating head chef system between Sienna, Melody, and [me]. The head chef is in charge of coming up with the theme ahead of time and possible dish ideas. During that first week, whoever is the head chef will present their idea, and then we all get onto a whiteboard and start putting down ideas for different courses or ingredients we want to incorporate. We usually create a six– to seven–course menu.
During the second week and the first half of the third week, the three of us get together to R&D all of our dishes and see how they turn out. We're all seniors, so we have our own kitchens to experiment with the dishes. Once we're happy with the dishes, or once we've decided to kind of revamp the menu, we do a lot of grocery runs and also purchase any special plating, tableware, or decor. That's when it all comes together. The day or two days before is when we'll start prepping, which is done in a lot of different places. We try to prepare as much as possible, that way, through dinner service, we can be very quick between our dishes and have no downtime.
We usually host our dinner parties at Sienna's home. She has a very big table where we can seat 12 people pretty comfortably. Through the morning, up until the evening, we're finishing up prep, cooking, and setting up. At the end, our final product is a 12–person dinner, where the decor is matched to the overall theme of the dinner. We're bringing together the 12 people through a lottery system, so most of the time, they're complete strangers to each other. During the dinner, we serve our dishes and focus on delivering this top dining experience that's still accessible for college students. We spread the word about our events by word of mouth and through Instagram (follow us @everynowthenn)!
Can you describe the energy in the room during one of your dinner parties?
There’s a lot of nervous energy on our end in the kitchen, even though we've been through many dinners. Every menu is new, and it's our first time making everything together, so there's always uncertainty. On the guest side, everyone has a great time. During the dinners we sit in, talk to the guests, and explain the dishes—including how we made it, our background with the dish, and what it's supposed to represent. It's a nice, calm dinner party where a lot of people are meeting each other and enjoying a meal, but in the back, it's like a hectic mess.
What is your favorite memory from every now & then?
My favorite memory has to be the first dinner that we pulled off because I had spent an entire semester planning and thinking through every little detail. Seeing it all come together at the first dinner was amazing. We also have this little guest book where people write notes for us. At the end of the night, reading through that guest book and seeing everybody's comments, I realized why serving other people is one of the highest callings in life—it’s just really, really satisfying.
What does it mean to you to cook for others?
The thing I love about food is everybody has their own experiences with food, and most of them are very positive. What food means to me is sitting down with my family at the dinner table and just having time to talk to everyone. In that sense, it's kind of a medium and excuse to interact with other people, sit down at the end of the day, and have good food. Food is something that everybody appreciates, and because we always eat it, everybody has an opinion and individual tastes. When you're able to serve people, you're able to bring them together and create something everyone enjoys. That is one of my favorite things.
Have you developed any strongly held views on the culinary industry throughout your experience?
In the culinary world, there's this obsession with authenticity. Food critics and chefs alike are always talking about how their dishes are true to their roots, how they're using age–old techniques or exact ingredients from specific regions. While I think that there is value in this reverence to tradition, I also think if food tastes good to you and brings you joy, then it's authentic—at least to you. Food is deeply personal, and it transcends cultural and geographic boundaries. There's no reason that it should be limited to a traditional recipe. Our most famous foods today have come through years and years of evolution; they're very different from how they originally started, but we still consider them authentic. Take pizza, for example, which started in Naples as a humble food for the poor. Now we have Chicago deep dish pizza, pizza with Japanese style ingredients, and, recently, I saw a butter–chicken–style pizza. It's a show of how cuisine evolves and how people's creativity pulls it through these different forms as they add their own preferences and local ingredients. It’s a wonderful thing.
I think the issue with this fixation on authenticity is that it tends to stifle creativity and innovation in the kitchen. Food is a reflection of who we are, our preferences, our backgrounds, and our own taste buds. If you enjoy experimenting with traditional recipes, swapping in different ingredients, or even fusing two different styles, then that's your authenticity speaking out. If food tastes good to you, then it's authentic to you. Food is always evolving, it's always innovating, changing, and adapting, and it's personal.
I heard you hosted a dessert pop–up this past weekend—tell me about it!
What we did this past weekend was a little bit different—it was more of an opener for the semester. We made like 100 different cookies and cakes, and from there, it was just free to anybody. Anyone could just come, try some good food, and hang out with friends. This was more of an atypical event as we had a lot of food and a lot of people.
Aside from cooking, what are some of your favorite things to do in your free time?
I started running pretty recently, and I'm training for the half marathon in November. I'm also really into physical fabrication. I took product design and started making a lot of physical trinkets through laser cutting and 3D printing. Most of all, spending time with friends is my favorite thing to do.
How do you balance your academics, hobbies, and running the restaurant?
Senior year has been a lot busier than I expected. But the nice thing about being in school for like 16 years now is I know how much effort I need to put into academics to get by. The rest of that time I can fill with more meaningful pursuits and what I'll remember from my time in college. I feel like I'm learning a lot from this restaurant, so that's how I'm able to justify the time commitment. I basically block out the required time that I need for school, and then fill the rest of my free time with hobbies and socializing with friends.
Where on campus have you found the best sense of community?
I've been really lucky that I don't have one that's the best, but just a bunch that are really, really amazing. Freshman year I found a community through Spark and SEP, where I've made very close friends that I spend a lot of my time with. A lot of friends I've made through random interactions that I've had. Now, I'm part of Bell Senior Society and every now & then, which are also really great communities. I'm very lucky in the sense that I don't have one group that is clearly leaps and bounds above the rest, because they're all just really good communities.
What’s next for you after Penn? Do you see yourself pursuing a career or future in culinary arts?
Next year, I'm going to be working in New York at a climate tech startup doing software. I don’t see myself working formally in the restaurant business, but after I graduate, when most people do a senior trip, I think I want to stage at a fancy restaurant and just learn a lot more. Depending on what friends show up in New York, or who I meet, I want to keep at least something that resembles every now & then, and continue hosting dinner parties and creating these menus.
Lightning Round Questions:
No–skip song? "Phone Numbers" by Dominic Fike
Favorite spot for food in Philly? Hardena. It's Indonesian food and a family–run business.
If you could travel anywhere in the world, where would you go? Singapore
Favorite dishes to cook? Fried rice and steak tartare
Favorite food to eat? Eggplant–based dishes
Dream chef collaboration? Lucas Sin; he ran restaurant pop-ups at Yale and now he’s a food influencer.
There are two types of people at Penn… The people that have won Quizzos at Smokes and the people that have not.
And you are? I have not yet won.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Do you know that one senior who brings a smile to everyone’s face or always has the craaaaziest stories? It’s time to give them the recognition they deserve. Ego of the Week seeks to showcase seniors not for their grades or any other fake academic construct, but for who they are as a person and the joy they bring to the people around them! Nominate your favorite Penn Seniors for Ego of the Week!
