The film focuses on the events of May 13, 1985 when 11 MOVE members were killed in their headquarters after city officials ordered the drop of explosives on the house during an eviction effort. The fire that ensued engulfed 61 surrounding houses.
Street: You were a child living in Philadelphia on May 13, 1985. What did the MOVE organization mean to you then? Jason Osder: I was pretty young at the time, and a lot of my understanding [of what happened] developed as I grew up. So much of the story defies easy explanation, and I really think at the time, adults had trouble explaining it to children. I think as a child, you have a sense when adults don’t know how to explain what’s going on, and that feeling just added to the tension. I definitely think viewing this [event] as a child affected my perception of the whole ordeal.
The [childhood perspective] is something I’ve tried to preserve as an adult, and something I try to preserve as a filmmaker. I wanted [the film] to feel like a child sitting too close to the television screen as these violent images flow through. I think a lot about being a director isn’t about the actual, literal experience, as much as it is depicting it in an aesthetic way to have an impact for the viewer.
Street: And that led to the use of only archival footage? Could you expand on why you chose not to include any interviews? JO: Actually my original model was to have some really central interviews. We interviewed people like Ramona Africa, we interviewed Michael Ward and Harvey Clark. I wanted to include Wilson Goode but that was before we decided to go all archival.
I think the turn really came during the editing process. [The editor and I] always described it as: I’ve been collecting this material for ten years, that’s been my job. And the editor’s job is watching everything in a three week period what I’ve been collecting for almost a decade. What he helped me see was that the interviews were always lacking something—they had a lot less than what we really wanted and they weren’t that revealing. Take Romana: I couldn’t get under her surface. You want something that’s going to reveal someone’s true emotions.
Street: So you chose to use the hearings instead of the interviews? JO: We thought that the hearings that we included really had something special. With the hearings you could do a lot that you couldn’t do with the talking head. You could move the story forward, provide exposition, provide context, but you wouldn’t have the liability [of] everything slowing down. You wouldn’t get that “letting all the air out of the tire effect.” I think when you go to that talking head it’s like you’re letting the audience relax. It’s like “Oh, I can take a break now because someone’s about to explain it for me now.” If you never go to that talking head, they’re never going to get that—the audience is going to have to keep working for it.
It was an idea, and we decided to try it. If it worked out, you could think up a lot of smart reasons of why it worked out, but really it was an artistic process, a lot of what you realize works is just in the process of doing it.
Street: If this is the only film that someone watches about MOVE, do you think the film accurately encapsulates and reflects what happened? JO: I think the film is specifically about 1985, and I think it brings about themes that are relevant and that deserve to be talked about, but I do think it leaves a lot out. I mean, it doesn’t deal a lot with the racial background of the city, or [of] the country as a whole. It doesn’t really deal with the aftermath. There are still people living on the streets today who are fighting to get their houses properly rebuilt. And so there are other stories, but I decided to focus on what was most dramatic, the most salient.
Street: Why do you think that the order was given from city officials to “let the fire burn” after the dropping of the bombs? Do you think the film answers that? JO: There are partial ways to understand that, but you could never fully understand it. I hope the film presents enough of the [information] so that you’re always thinking about [the question] but you’re never comfortable with it. With that being said, there were actions that were so weighted into not having another one of “theirs” [the city officials, policemen or firemen] lost. I think you have a lot of cops on that police force who would have gone in there to try to do something better, maybe try to help some innocent people like the kids in the house, but I think people were acting on a political fear. I mean, the leadership at the time didn’t want to be blamed for another cop being killed, and that’s why you get this sort of “hands–off” feeling of “Let’s shoot them from down the block,” “Let’s drop a bomb from a helicopter,” “Let’s not go in there.” One of the excuses to “let it burn” was that they didn’t want firefighters going in. [The city officials] were afraid [the firefighters] were going to get shot. You could say that’s ridiculous, but you know, fear is fear. It’s real if you feel it.
Street: In the beginning of the film, we meet one of the two survivors of the May 13, 1985 fire, Michael Ward, and we immediately begin to sympathize with him. Did you have a direction of who the audience is actually supposed to sympathize with? JO: I hope that people sympathize with different people at different parts of the film. I hope it moves their sense of identification, and their sense of “good” and “bad.” I want the film to be interpreted differently. People come up to me after the film and ask, “What would you have done?” and I have to reply “What would I have done if I was who?”
Specifically regarding Michael Ward, I think he gives an unbiased view of the MOVE organization. Michael Ward’s voice is the voice of a child. I think there are a lot of ways we identify ourselves, but age is something we’ve all experienced. We’ve all experienced being a child. I don’t think we could ever imagine what it’s like to be a different race, a different class even. But I can imagine what it was like to be a child, I mean, so can you, so can everyone really, so I think there’s something unifying about Michael Ward in this film. Everyone’s always asking “who should I believe?” but it’s impossible to not believe Michael. It’s like he doesn’t even know how to lie.
Street: What do you feel about the film’s success so far? JO: Completing a film, going to all these film festivals, doing all these press releases—it’s kind of a celebratory thing, and I think it’s sometimes easy to sort of slip into this mode of celebrating your own accomplishments. But at the end of the day, the story is always going to be a tragedy, it’s always going to be about the people who died in that fire, or about the people who survived, or about the people who lost their homes. With Michael’s recent passing at 41, I think it really just adds to the reminder of what this film is all about. What I often think about are the five children that never got to tell their story.
Street: What do you think someone from a college campus should get out of this film? JO: I think it’s complicated, and I want it to be complicated. But I think the film is about something much broader than just the specific history. It’s not so much just walking out of the theater and giving money to a certain group or support something new, or making a new dedication to recycling or something, or exercising, or only eating dolphin–safe tuna. I want people to look at the world and think: Where is this being repeated? Where are children being sacrificed for the beliefs of adult? Where are the places where violence is being done with no regard for humanity? Where is history repeating itself? And I think if the film affects you that way, and causes you to look at the world more critically, you see a lot of instances that people are being dehumanized in a similar way. I guess that’s what I hope it does; I hope it attunes people not so much looking at the past, but in fact looking at the present with a new critical eye.
“Let The Fire Burn” has been released since October and is continually being released across the country. The film has a wider release on Nov. 1. The trailer and more information about the film can be found at http://www.letthefireburn.com
